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Jhey Tompkins Chats About Building Awesome Demos

Learn how to use projects to improve your skills and problem-solving!

It's easy to become entrenched in what you already know how to do. You might have a fun project idea that requires creating really awesome CSS animations, and it might seem out of reach if you haven't done anything like that before. But getting through that mental block is an extremely rewarding experience. You gain technical skills and improve your general problem-solving abilities.

If you've ever struggled with side-projects, check out this episode where you'll learn how Jhey Tompkins never seems to run out of things to build and get his expert advice on how he problem solves.

Homework

  • Start keeping a list of every random idea that you have. Use the list for project inspiration

Guests

Jhey Tompkins
Jhey Tompkins

Transcript

Kent C. Dodds (00:00):
Hello friends. This is your friend Kent C. Dodds. And I'm joined by my friend, Jhey Tompkins. Say hi, Jhey.

Jhey Tompkins (00:06):
Hi Jhey.

Kent C. Dodds (00:09):
Good. So I'm excited to be joined by Jhey we've known each other for, I don't know, maybe like two years just on Twitter. I don't think we've ever met in person before though. I just pretty much follow you on Twitter and like your cool demos.

Jhey Tompkins (00:23):
Yeah, I think that's about right. Yeah. Probably about two years. I ended up trying to do some stuff for you for Epic. And then...

Kent C. Dodds (00:32):
Yeah, actually. So you did make the, anybody who's been on any of my Epic reacts a workshop repos, I've got a GIF at the top. And that GIF has like, the rocket, has the whatever, fire coming out of the back and it's moving. And you were the one who created that GIF or created the moving animation on that GIF?

Jhey Tompkins (00:54):
Well I attempted one and then I don't think we went forward with it. I think [inaudible 00:00:58] did one and then I did one and it was like, it was really hard to get going on those flames.

Kent C. Dodds (01:03):
Yeah. I do remember your version. Your version looked really cool. It looked realistic and yeah. So anyway, you make all sorts of demos like this, and it's fascinating. Just following you on Twitter. It's really enjoyable. There's another Twitter account. I can't remember the handle, but his name is Dave. I don't know if you follow him, but he makes all sorts of really interesting animation stuff.

Jhey Tompkins (01:25):
At B's and Bombs.

Kent C. Dodds (01:27):
Yeah. And it's like infinite loop stuff. It's like mind bending. I love following accounts like yours. It's just really fun and interesting. And you also do gifts of yourself, which I appreciate as well.

Jhey Tompkins (01:43):
I'm trying try to build up my back catalog so I can get up to speed with yours. I've got some that I need to record.

Kent C. Dodds (01:50):
More people need to do this, I think. So that's, I think that's awesome. So Jhey, we've gotten into this already, but nobody, or we haven't actually had the opportunity to introduce you. So why don't you just tell us a little bit about who you are, where you work, what you do for fun> whatever you want to say.

Jhey Tompkins (02:11):
Well, I'm Jhey Tomkins. I'm currently in the UK. I'm currently exploring opportunities and I probably known as a creative developer or a whimsical developer online. That's probably where my reputation is. But that's not my background, which I'm sure we'll dig into. And outside of code, I do all sorts of things. But at the moment, obviously that's restricted, but I do a lot of calisthenics and sports and things. People often see me swinging from the gymnastics bar on Twitter.

Kent C. Dodds (02:47):
Yeah. I've noticed that. Is that on your apartment building or is that your house or where's that bar?

Jhey Tompkins (02:54):
Yeah. So this is my house and it's quite a funny story, but probably too long for this. But the house I bought is across the street from where I grew up. And when I got the house, I had all these plans and I was like, I need a pull up bar. That's the first thing I want. Just a bar that I can do, like muscle ups on and stuff. And it was one of the first things I got and it's been the best investment because I use it all the time, whatever the weather. But it's drilled into the side of the house. And you just go out there, mid December, just breathe on your hands quick, go out.

Kent C. Dodds (03:31):
That's amazing. I noticed you flipping around in there and I'm like, man, his head is just inches from the wall.

Jhey Tompkins (03:36):
Yep.

Kent C. Dodds (03:37):
I'm sure you've hit your head before. Have you?

Jhey Tompkins (03:39):
No, I've got quite lucky. You can get, so that bar is a commercial grade one. It's like, I think it's 900 mil from the wall and that's the deepest you can go. And I've been fortunate. The only thing I've done is I've hit my heels when I've swung around to do a full rotation. And I've clicked my heels on the wall, but not in a bad way. I didn't really notice it. Surprising, the shock that your heels can take.

Kent C. Dodds (04:07):
Yeah. Well, I actually, when I was a kid, I was a gymnast. So doing those kinds of exercises on a bar like that is for me, it's pretty fun. So that's cool that you're doing that.

Jhey Tompkins (04:21):
Yeah. I don't have much grace.

Kent C. Dodds (04:24):
But you definitely have strength. It is not easy to do that. So, yeah. That's cool. So Jhey you, I want to talk with you a lot about your, the amazing demos that you make. You're clearly very experienced in CSS. Some of these things I see, I'm like, I had no idea you could do that without JavaScript, or even with JavaScripts. And I'm like, wow, that is hard. How do you do this? Stuff like that? And I'm interested in what got you into some of this stuff.

Jhey Tompkins (04:55):
So yeah, it's quite funny because yeah, people obviously associate me with CSS, but I do, I wear many hats. I do various things. That's the thing that I enjoyed pushing on the side. So as we were saying just before we came on, I started as a middleware engineer and I have more of an engineering background. That's where I began. I was doing, learning react and backbone and like angular and things, before I really got into visual kind of work. That's only been the last, well, I look at the actual thing. It's probably been like three or four years now, maybe even five. It feels like time just flies. But yeah, I started looking at CSS and I started digging into like one of the first visual things was digging into 3D transforms and animations. And then as the curiosity begins and I want to learn more and I want to see how far I can push something, then I try and make demos based off of that.
And that's what I share. So they're the fun things I do outside of work. And then I share them on online and share them and show people what we can do. So the most recent one would have been an app property article, which is a new CSS feature that will be coming to all browsers soon, which it allows you to provide types almost. It's giving context to custom properties. So the browser knows how to animate them and transition them, which is really cool. You can do some really cool stuff with it, but yeah, I guess...

Kent C. Dodds (06:21):
So does that allow you to, was that your, I saw briefly a demo of, it was a color picker or something, is that what that was?

Jhey Tompkins (06:30):
No, that was that's something else. That was messing around with, so I guess this latches on to what we were saying before we came on. So the demo that I did that was more to do with app property was the stopwatch that was just made with CSS. It was the [crosstalk 00:06:45] thing. But the one with the color picker, I think I did that the other day because it's the CodePen challenge for monochromatic pallets. And I just had this in my head. I was like, I wonder how you would make prism highlighter work in react and change it on sliders and have it update the code block because I had not done it before. So I'll give that a go.
And then yeah, what I did was I just hooked in with a ref and then I created a CSS string and a ref. And then I passed that into a block and have prism highlight it on each state change, which is updated by the slightest. But it was just like a fun little thing to try out because I've not really done that before. Normally it just statically render a code block grant. But I was like, I wonder how it is easiest to keep updating it.

Kent C. Dodds (07:36):
Yeah. That's interesting. So would you say that most of the cool demos you share on Twitter and that you just work on the side. Are those things that you have experience with or those things that you're just learning about and you're just sharing with us the stuff that you're learning?

Jhey Tompkins (07:54):
It's a big variety. It's a really big variety. So I come from, I normally work with say, React or like any of the hot topic frameworks, right? Normally what I'm working with or I use [inaudible 00:08:10] and it depends. I normally led by my ideas. So I'll come up with something that I'd think, oh, that'd be cool to make. I wonder what that would look like. And then I try and spin a way to, I have to create it in a different way than I have before, or try and find a way to use something I might not have yet. But it tends to be most things, once you've hit a point, I will have created, that I've created many react apps or many SVG animations or many CSS animations. So some of them are like, yeah, it's just using the same thing, but trying to twist it in a different way or, but if there's an opportunity to try and use something else, like I'll be like, cool, I'm going to try and use that plugin or use this framework or try something else.

Kent C. Dodds (08:56):
Oh, that's cool. I think that at least it's an entertainment for me because I enjoy looking at it. Anytime I look at the actual code I'm like, there are things in here that I understand. There are some that I don't. The CSS in particular is one area that I, there's a reason that I don't have a CSS course because I don't, that's not my area of expertise at all. Why is it that you've gotten into this? Isn't on the job, coding enough for you? What motivates you to keep coding after hours?

Jhey Tompkins (09:36):
I think I just enjoy it. That's genuinely it. And I love, the thing for me is I always need to be, I have this need to always want to push myself or try something new or like, what's next. And I'm always looking for ways that I can push code to do interesting things. That's what I enjoy it. So I've always done it even before I started sharing it. It would be like, I wonder how I'd make that? But I started more from a background of like, I'll make a tool. I'll make something that does this for me. I'll make, way back I made a note scripts, it's like a note script runner, but the idea was early on, I discovered dot files through being like almost shamed for not using them. And for not version controlling them.
So that evening I was like, right, I'm going to go and make a tool that does it for me. I couldn't find one that did it in node. So I was like, I'm going to learn how to use things like ShowJS and stuff like that to do it for me. And I ended up writing this package, it's still on GitHub. I still use it, but I've just been recently porting over to John Linquist's Script Kit. But yeah, I wiped all my machines that weekend and I have the script. I install node. And it has like a config of all the apps I use on my machine or my dot files and things are on GitHub. I run the script. And Hey, Presto, like all my machines are set up to my specific taste without me having to spend hours configuring vs code or remembering what extensions I had installed and all that kind of thing. But yeah, I guess I started making tools.

Kent C. Dodds (11:17):
Yeah. Interesting. So you just coding on the side to solve your own problems. Now I don't imagine that you needed a stopwatch or like a syntax highlighter. You can change the color. So at what point did you transition from I'm building stuff that I need to, I'm building stuff that's just fun to build? And how do you identify the stuff that you decide, hey, I want to see if I can make that?

Jhey Tompkins (11:44):
I think a big change for me was when I discovered CodePen. I'd already, I'd made some fun things. And funny enough, my intro to CSS aside from some real basic layout pro changes or color changes was, creating loading spinners. At the office, I worked in at the time. I used to just like over lunch, I'd be like, do you know what? I'll make a few spinners? And I had this really long, I think it was JS bin at the time. That was like one of the, I think it's probably still out there. But I just had this huge file that was in this bookmark that I had to just like 50 odd CSS spinners. And every day I'd be like, yeah, I'll just add some more. And that's how it started. And then I discovered CodePen because I wanted to start embedding demos in blog posts. So I used to write, I still do obviously write. But I started by writing posts about what I was making the tools I'd create and just creating a log of that. No real purpose for it. Apart from, to document my own work.
And I went into office one day and someone was like, oh, I saw your CodePen on the front page of CodePen. I was like, what? Like, oh, that's cool. Like, I didn't know. That was a thing. Then I sat down and checked it, I was like, oh, your pen was picked. I was like, wow, that's really cool. And I grew more into like, I'm going to make some, there's a community here of people building cool visual things and it's fun. And yeah, I want to do that because that's how I like to learn. I like to have fun with it. I want to do that. I want to make some interesting thing that I'm probably not going to deploy to prod anytime soon, but it's going to be fun for me to make and try out new things. And that's where I went with it. I just kept making visual things. And obviously there are times when I make things that are more practical and share them, but there are times where I make things that may be seen as more upset or whimsical.
And then it's driven by, sometimes a need for something, sometimes something that's topical at the time or even just a way to challenge myself. So the demo I shared yesterday that I'm, just finished writing about is about doing this infinite scrolling slider, but without like duplicating elements. And it's all about manipulating time. So it's like an animation, but you're actually scrubbing time. Yeah. It's pretty interesting. I got a lot of help in the forums on green for that. So shout outs to Jack for helping me a lot. But yeah, something that was really interesting for you to get, for me to get my head around and the challenge of it. And then the other side will be like, oh, a new properties out. I'm going to go off and have fun with that or something comes up and I'll draw something on the iPad. I'm like, I'm going to give this some life I'm going to animate it.

Kent C. Dodds (14:37):
Yeah. So you have lots of inspiration from all over. And I was going to ask like, do you, so you said some of this stuff is pretty practical. Some of it's not exactly. Are there, and the main reason that you do it is just for fun. Are there practical benefits that you've seen in yourself as you've worked on some of the stuff? Has it given you any, yeah, any benefit beyond just being a fun way to spend your time?

Jhey Tompkins (15:09):
I was going to say that. Yeah. May maybe practical wasn't the right word. May not be practical for others, but always practical for yourself. So in whatever you make, you'll always, I always try and do different things because they're typically not the normal and there's typically not any tutorials that are going to show me how to do that thing. So every time I'm given the opportunity by an idea that I have it's, I could spin that and I'm going to be able to push something in a direction where I've not seen it go before something that's not typically documented. So it enhances your skills as a problem solver and a way to find the solution to things or like how to defeat some obstacle with the tools you've got in your hands. How am I going to make this move to here or how am I going to make this app do this?
And it, I think we were saying before, it's like, those skills are applicable, the tech changes, but those core skills, you're only developing them. So even if it's something fun that others might not use, I'm gaining something from that, which I'll be able to take forward. And it's the same for anyone else that does this kind of thing. One example that is easy to pick on. People normally pick on like when people do CSS illustrations or quirky animations and things. Yes. You might not use a big CSS illustration in your site. You're going to reach for SVG or a actual image because it's more performant. But the skills of being able to lay out all the pieces or how to clip things into certain shapes or do certain manipulations is really quite powerful. And it gives you like a different understanding. So yeah, there's always a practical use for yourself.

Kent C. Dodds (16:56):
Yeah. No. It's very interesting. And it opens up opportunities for you as well, where I mentioned it gives you something to write about or you get invited to speak or whatever. I mean, I don't think I would have known about you if it weren't for some of the cool demos that you have. I can't remember where I found your Twitter, but I imagine it's because I saw something cool that you shared. And I was like, I want more of that in my timeline. So there's that. And I do, I really enjoy that. So awesome. So you've got this, you were telling me before that you have this list of ideas of things, and I'm curious a little bit, what are some of the things on your list and where do you yeah, where did the idea to create this list come from and where do ideas, how do ideas get onto the list?

Jhey Tompkins (17:59):
So I'm not very, I'm pretty welcoming to all ideas. So I don't exclude anyone or any ideas that come in. But yeah, I have this idea that I keep a list of all the ideas I come up with. Even if I don't pursue them, I have a big backlog of things that I will potentially do at some point, if I want to pluck something out or if I'm having a day where I'm like, what should I do today? I'm just going to pull a finger on screen and I'll go for that one. But yeah, I got into this habit of when it started out, I'd have an idea and I'd focus on that idea. And I started taking inspiration. The more my skills grew, the more I realized I can make that. I can make that. I could probably make that as well.
And I think we said this before we came on, one thing that I believe in is that you should be confident in yourself that you can create anything. Don't ever think that you can't. Don't be intimidated by an idea. It's sounds really easy to say, but it's just pixels on a screen. Right? And I started with a Trello board where I just like, oh, that's an idea. That's an idea. And it just became an absolute unwieldily mess. And then I moved it all over to notion. And now it's still quite a mess, but it's a bit more categorized. And then I have one of these paper productivity, planner books, where I can keep the ideas that I'm working on, to a smaller subset. And then any ideas I have, I use the app, like the notion app on my phone. And then I just tap in ideas.
Now the ideas, and this is like, something I find really important to get across to people is that an idea can be anything. It doesn't have to be like the fully fledged idea. Even just a few key words that sparks some kind of inspiration or some kind of tangent for you to go on is enough for you to create something like some of the ideas I have. And even when I do them on the live stream, I go in with one idea and it might come out with a completely different result. And like, it's directed by people that are in there, or like, we think, oh, we'll go in a different direction with it. But yeah, some of my ideas, they're just key words. So it will be like we were going through some I'll try and come up with some other ones and, even just like blog articles and things. So I have one here, zebra. So I think that was like a GIF of a zebra with some shades, but I thought it'd be a cool SVG animation.
I've got one, that's a 3D flipping laptop. So I imagine that will be some kind of like laptop, maybe CSS that flips open and spins around, oh, I created like this animation a while back where it's like, Hulk flies out from the backdrop. And every time you press this button, he smashes the button, like a like button and then like shards of like stuff. And I was like, I should create a better version of that for my stream. So like, if I have a moment where I'm frustrated, people can like the command and make the bear come out on like smash the stream or something.

Kent C. Dodds (21:13):
Sounds great.

Jhey Tompkins (21:14):
Yeah and then the idea is just keep going. And I think it's cool to just absorb ideas from anywhere. So TV, games, things you see in the news things, you read things you see out your window, just anything, even conversations with people. Like I have one here. I think I was chatting with someone and we said about, I don't know what it is about, but just the thing just says magic rock for Nile. So I assume there was something about a rock and then I'll dig into that. And that will be an idea.

Kent C. Dodds (21:46):
Yeah. Well, so just huge array of ideas. I have a list of ideas for things to write blog posts about. And anytime I go, it's very rare that I will pick something off of that list for me, because anytime I go there, I'm just like, I'm not into that right now. I'm just not feeling it. Do you ever get that way?

Jhey Tompkins (22:06):
Yeah. I think that's an interesting point as well. When you get to that thing and you're like, I just want to complete it and get out the way. I'm one of them, it's on the list. It needs to happen. But just before we move on, there's actually one, there's a couple of things on the list here that I've just spotted, which are actually inspired from conversations with you from a while back, and you might remember them. So do you remember you joked about different hooks and I think you said something like use dark side or something on Twitter, it would have been a while back.

Kent C. Dodds (22:38):
Yeah.

Jhey Tompkins (22:39):
So it did. I was going to make, and I've not made it yet. I just tinkered with the idea of quick on a cube, but use dark side hook, which would actually flip your UI on a 3D cube. So it would go out and then flip around and it'd be dark side of the cube and then come back.

Kent C. Dodds (22:56):
Oh, dude, that would be awesome. Yeah. I like that.

Jhey Tompkins (23:02):
Yeah. That's in there. I think about doing like useful screen or something when we did that and I knocked up a demo quick for it.

Kent C. Dodds (23:12):
So I'm redoing my website right now. I'm doing a big redesign. I've got some people helping me with it too. And I might enlist you to help me because I'd love that we're going to add dark mode. And that would be the coolest way to toggle between light and darkness. No that was so cruel.

Jhey Tompkins (23:28):
My head straight away when you said the tweet and I was like, oh my I've got to make that. That'd be so cool. I just began how you clone the current state of the UI onto a different side or something, and then make that the actual reactive one when it comes around. But yeah, that'd be so cool to do.

Kent C. Dodds (23:44):
Yeah. That's a wrap. I think about stuff like that and I don't know the first thing about doing something like that. It just sounds so outside of my reach you mentioned this earlier, that you shouldn't feel like there's not anything outside of your reach, but like, it just feels like it would be. So how do you avoid feeling that way and how do you make sure that you are, I don't know, like yeah. That you feel like you can make it happen?

Jhey Tompkins (24:14):
Yeah. I try and operate with a there's a no limits policy. I just, I'm going to make it happen if I get really stuck. And I don't know, I guess I'm quite fortunate cause I've been doing this a long time.. my ability to solve problems has got better and better. Like, I'm good at digging into code. Like I'll happily dig into the source code of projects and things to work out. What's going on. if the answer isn't in the docs, I'm going into that GitHub repo, and I'm fine to do it. But yeah, if I get really stuck, then I'll reach out to people. But I think it's just a case of enhancing that problem, solving skill. We're talking about, I know how to manipulate things and because I've used something a lot, I'm comfortable doing that.
So in my head for that particular example, I know we're going to do something when the state hits and there's going to be some transition that I want to make. I know how to do 3D because I've done 3D in various ways, but in my head, I'm just thinking like, I'm already thinking ahead, oh, how will I do the state change when I flip it? And then when it lands, is that a good time to flip the cloned UI for the real one, and then render it on that side or is it just a smoke and mirrors? I try and think, I don't know, I just have this sense where I just compatriot. I always advocate having scribble books around I've got better at this now. So I have all these notebooks that I write in, or there's even a demo of my notebook where you can scroll in it like turns and it shows demos like the scribbles, and you can click the demos and it takes you to what actually happened.
But yeah, I've tried to get better at this activity planner, but I always try and like scribble things out, obviously on this, this is audio only. So people won't see this. But you can see that, I've been scribbling out the thing I've been doing today, which is this scrolling cover view. And they're the little squares. And I was trying to map out the timescale of it. But it goes back to like that belief before, if you can visualize it. I, I really believe that if you go for it, you can do it. You'll find a way like somewhere someone would have done something, maybe along the lines, or it depends how wild your ideas is. The key thing is to believe.

Kent C. Dodds (26:36):
I think that's important too. Most of my, where I end up struggling with this is when not, I'm not using a library. So I can't dive into library. It's more of a platform thing. And often it's something that's visual. So that's especially animations and just design. That side of the web development is just, I'M seriously lacking and it's frustrating to me. And I typically just avoid doing that work. And I think that the more that I avoid it, the longer I'll just not be able to do it. Eventually you got to put in the time to get the experience, and you've done this enough times with all these demos that you're not intimidated by these visual ideas that you have. Whereas for me, if I think about, okay, so we're going to do this leaves following naturally rotating some 3D, something. I've never done anything like that before. And it seems a lot more challenging and scary then, maybe it is.

Jhey Tompkins (27:47):
But as soon as you say an Idea like that, for me, like the way I work is like, you've just said that sentence. And in my head, I'm already picturing how I'm, how I'm making it. So I'm already picturing those leaves, how I'm going to do that. I probably won't make it. And maybe I will put it on the list, who knows. But yeah, it's completely right, what you say. And obviously I didn't just wake up one day and I could do it all. It's been a progression. And I think it's interesting for me, the best timeline for me to actually review that is probably my CodePen, like demos through time. My first ones would have just been, I think one of the first ones is a bare head and it just tilts and winks.
And at the time I was like, yeah, that's cool. But like, for like now I'd do it completely different. I'd add a bit more like motion. And as you learn like designs and you're inspired, but other people that do these things and you pick up tricks and tips from what you see, or what you read or what you're inspired. You see where you can make these gains and improve as you go along and then it becomes more intuitive for you. Especially, I always found it hard because I don't have an, I still don't feel I have a designer sensed me. I've come from an engineering side. So I've only recently read like more design orientated books and things like that to try and pick up that visual side of things. So it's, I'm coming from the other way around, I'll force it to happen some way with logic and then I'm putting the motion and things on top of it.

Kent C. Dodds (29:21):
Yeah. For me when I see these things, like look at this amazing thing I built without JavaScript. If I were to build that, I'd be like begging for JavaScript. Please. How can I do this with JavaScript? I just I'm scared by doing advanced stuff with CSS.

Jhey Tompkins (29:42):
Well, I think one thing with the CSS stuff is once a couple of the little tricks to do those things, it becomes, it's just then limited by like what you want to do with it. So a lot of those tricks come from actually knowing how semantic markup works. So for example, the fan I did, like I did a desk fan last week and it's a radio button. So it's a radio button. And then you just use the sibling Combinator, which is like the Tilda, or you can use the plus version, which is the next, and it just says, right, that how that works is it grabs the next sibling and HTML, and then you can just apply styles when something is checked. So it's just the checkbox hack. And once you've got the checkbox hack, yeah, that opens up doors.

Kent C. Dodds (30:36):
You can start opening and closing boxes and all sorts of things,

Jhey Tompkins (30:41):
Interest semantic one, details in summary, when you actually opened them. The browser pends, like open attribute onto details. I think it's onto details.

Kent C. Dodds (30:54):
Yeah. And then style away. Yeah. That's cool. Well, so Jhey, we're reaching the end of our time here. Was there anything else that you wanted to bring up that we didn't get a chance to already?

Jhey Tompkins (31:08):
I think we managed to cover things that we said we're going to cover didn't we? I think.

Kent C. Dodds (31:15):
I think so. Yeah. So we do have the homework assignment or the call to action for folks. So what we want you to do is to create a list, like Jhey talked about, where you just write down ideas of interesting things that you could build. And actually, one thing that we didn't really talk about was your approach to learning new things. So do you want to talk about that a little bit?

Jhey Tompkins (31:34):
Yeah. We can squeeze that in quick. I was going to say, yeah, the, my approach is always to not focus on the, how or the why it's focused on what I want to make fine. List of things that I want to try and try out or use and then find ways to apply them. So if I think of a particular demo and then I'll be like, cool, I'm going to use this new thing that I've not tried. I'm going to learn that with this demo, see if I can make it work. And it all goes back to that skill. We said before, it's all about enhancing your skills as a problem solver. Someone that can find solutions to things given X, Y, or Z.
Because no matter how the tech changes and evolves over years, that skill set is always applicable. Like that core skill of being able to solve problems, you'll be able to apply it no matter what we're using, if we're still using react or whatever we're using in years to come, you'll be able to apply that skill. So having fun with it kind of doesn't make it feel so maybe taxing. And also the other side too, is when you try and have fun with things and try and do things a bit more out of the box, you find ways to push tools that might not necessarily have been documented or find ways to do things. To truly have great skills with the tools you have.

Kent C. Dodds (33:01):
Yeah. That's great. Okay, cool. So now people are going to make these lists, they're going to expand their current level of experience with these interesting tools. And now the last thing they're going to do is follow you on Twitter. So how do they do that Jhey?

Jhey Tompkins (33:15):
They do that by going to @jhfreyy and then hitting the followed bone.

Kent C. Dodds (33:22):
All right. Awesome. We'll put a link there too.

Jhey Tompkins (33:26):
Just to get them to get it wrong.

Kent C. Dodds (33:27):
Yeah. Cool. Well, hey Jhey, thank you so much for joining me for this time. And given some of your time to talk with me and our audience about the interesting things that you do, and hopefully people can start doing interesting things and they can tweet at you. They're cool ideas.

Jhey Tompkins (33:45):
Yeah. I love seeing people's stuff they make. Honestly, when I get tagged in things people make and they go, oh, I tried this. And it's like, oh, it's so cool. I it's really impressive to see the thing, the way people push things as well as amazing. Right?

Kent C. Dodds (33:58):
Awesome. Well, cool. Thanks everybody. And we'll see you all in the future. See you.

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