Kent chats with Aaron Francis about the power of resilience, adaptability, and taking calculated risks in your career. Aaron shares his journey from accounting to software development, navigating multiple career pivots, and ultimately betting on himself to start his own company. Drawing from his personal experience with job loss and reinvention, he offers practical advice on making yourself less fragile in an uncertain industry. This conversation is packed with insights on skill stacking, career resilience, and maintaining a work ethic that prioritizes both personal and professional fulfillment.
Aaron Francis joins Kent to discuss his talk at Epic Web Conf, Epic Bets: Practical Tips for Betting on Yourself. In this conversation, Aaron reflects on his non-traditional path into tech, his experience being laid off, and how he prepared himself to be resilient in the face of career uncertainty. He shares insights on why developers should focus on skill stacking, personal branding, and long-term sustainability in their careers rather than chasing trends.
Kent and Aaron also explore:
- How to future-proof your career without falling into the trap of chasing hype.
- Why writing and sharing your knowledge can open unexpected doors.
- The importance of building a professional network before you need it.
- How to balance ambition with family life and personal values.
- Why giving your absolute best—both professionally and personally—is always worth it.
Aaron’s perspective is both practical and inspiring, offering a roadmap for developers who want to take control of their future without sacrificing what truly matters.
Meet Aaron at Epic Web Conf.
Guests
Transcript
00:00 Hi, everybody. I'm so excited to be joined by my friend Aaron Francis. How are you doing Aaron? I'm good It's good to see you again Likewise, I'm very excited to see you in person again and remember. Oh, yeah, he's like quite tall Yeah, the first time we met the first time we met in person was just a couple months ago I feel like we're IRL friends now, so yeah Yeah
00:21 Well that like that's something I keep on talking about with people is when when you meet somebody in real life for the first time It changes the relationship and like totally improves it a big time Yeah, like even people you don't really vibe with once you meet them in person you may still not vibe with them But at least you understand them better and like you can relate better
00:40 Yeah, you might find out that Dax is actually a really sweet nice person. It's gonna be a huge surprise to everyone. Yes I've met him once in person and it was it was awesome. So I'm excited to see everybody. It's gonna be a lot of fun
00:56 Yeah, yeah, I'm super super stoked about that have you met Ryan Florence yet? No, I haven't no, that'll be great Yeah, good good to get the two of you together Prepare to a lot of people are surprised to find out that he's like my height, which is pretty like medium height
01:13 Person so people are like I thought you'd be taller and he's always like what does that even mean? Why would you say that? Yeah, I've heard I've heard a lot of people that have met particularly Ryan Florence in person and they're like man In person, he is so sweet and nice and online. He's kind of a curmudgeon
01:29 And so I'm actually really excited to meet him in person. Yeah. Yeah, it's gonna be great well, so Aaron You're gonna be speaking at the conference. I reached out to you specifically because you have this like
01:46 work ethic and this attitude toward life in general that I just really admire and I want more people to embody that attitude to Have that down-to-earth mentality. Your talk title is epic bets practical tips for betting on yourself I would like you to expand on that a little bit
02:03 So what what are you like, what's your history around this topic? And what are you hoping to share with everybody? Yeah, I'll start with what I'm hoping to share and then go back to history. I'm I'm hoping to I'm hoping to assuage some fears. I think there's a lot of like Uncertainty as to what the future of our kind of industry is
02:25 And I think there are some things that you can do as a developer to make yourself more resilient and so that's kind of the crux of What I want to share with people is like how do you as a working developer? Become a more resilient working developer
02:42 and so we can't become like we can't become layoff proof and we can't become AI proof, but we can Become less fragile to those things I got laid off not too long ago And so I feel like I have a lot to share there because a lot of the things that I did Before I got laid off set me up to be resilient
03:00 Through that layoff and eventually take the big bet on myself Which was to go full time with my friend Steve doing our own thing And so that leads a little bit to the history. I am NOT a I am NOT a College-educated CS developer. I am college-educated but in accounting and so
03:21 There's been a lot of things that I've like had to learn by myself on the fly And I've navigated a lot of honestly a lot of career changes, which is weird at you know, 35 But that's I think that is normal now that by 35 you've changed careers like four times and so
03:39 You know, I started as an accountant and then was in development and then did some marketing analyst stuff and then was you know a developer educator and so I've done all of these things, but I think Looking back I am grateful to myself for having stacked certain skills on top of each other that allow me to then Kind of just pick and choose where I want to go next
04:02 And so those are some of the things that I want to you know, share with the audience and hopefully Leave people feeling like yes, the future is uncertain But I am taking steps to make sure that I am I am ready for that uncertain future Yeah. Yeah. Have you read the book anti-fragile? I can't remember who authored. I have it. Yeah the idea is that
04:24 even You you set up your company or or yourself and in such a way that when there are turbulence you actually become stronger Which is a very interesting concept and kind of made me think of that I think another concept that I think about with this is You want to build the bridge before you need to cross the chasm?
04:46 and it takes a like a Occasionally a chasm is going to show up Unexpectedly like you're going to get laid off and you want to have some kind of network there or something Ready so that you don't have to take a leap of faith, but it's just a natural next step Yeah, and I think I think I'm in
05:05 Maybe a unique position to do this because of my background which is non-traditional I I live in Dallas, Texas. It's not a hub for anything except I guess oil money but like I I was able, you know, I got I got laid off and then the next week I had literally 40 calls
05:25 And so it's one of those things where I think a lot of people from the outside look and think Okay. Well, they you know went to Stanford or whatever They worked at some big startup or they're in the valley or you know, whatever and it's like I'm just I'm kind of a guy That's been remote here in Dallas without a proper education for you know
05:44 The past 15 years and like I'm making it work. And so I hope that it becomes Relatable that like hey, listen if I can if I can write some stuff on a blog and End up getting jobs. You can absolutely do that
06:00 And I mean that's that is truly my story is just like writing stuff down and talking about it and getting opportunities And I think that's a that's Available to everyone It's just really scary to do and so my goal is to hopefully encourage people to be like
06:17 You can do this here are some practical ways to do it and I don't know What this will give you in the future, but I can say that it is something good So I can't promise you're gonna get a job at XYZ and I can't promise that you're gonna go on to you know Start a startup or whatever
06:35 But I can pretty much promise that by doing these things you will set yourself up for some sort of good outcome And that's that's the goal No That is that is so true like it's the the pursuit of greatness may not get you to the like place that you were trying to go but
06:53 That that pursuit is what gears you up for wherever you end up and gives you more opportunities It increases your luck surface area all of that stuff. Yep, exactly. Well, I'm looking forward to that talk I think that's gonna be a really good one People should definitely not miss it and once you get off stage There are gonna be a lot of people who want to talk with you
07:11 What are some topics that you think would really get you fired up and excited to talk with them? Oh goodness, um On the off chance that any one is like super into databases or Laravel. Those are always those are always safe bets I think more broadly applicable and more
07:30 sorry, Laravel and databases more interesting to me would be like Living a life where it's like you're proud of what you do Like I've got you know, I've got four kids under four I've got a wife that works incredibly hard, but doesn't get paid I've got a ton of like I've got a ton of pressure and
07:49 I want to I want to be able to look back on this stage of life and say I tried my absolute hardest I did my best and hopefully things went well that parts outside of my control But the concept of like The concept of giving it everything you got because that is the right pure and noble thing to do
08:09 Even when it is hard and like being honest and open about that That's the kind of stuff where I'm like I could talk about that for hours Databases too, but that's the kind of like human stuff that I'm like Yeah, it is hard let's talk about how to be a dad or a mom and try to run your own company and try to show people that you can
08:29 And try to show up online and not do rage bait and like actually share like part of yourself with the online world Even if the algorithm doesn't like it because that's the right thing to do And so those are the kind of things where I'm like, yeah, let's talk about that. I think it's very necessary yeah, I
08:48 Totally love that and I actually Think that your company's name embodies a lot of that try hard studios I Actually think about that quite often here on your profile page It says Aaron Francis co-founder of try hard studios, and I just think that's the coolest thing
09:05 That it's it's just such a part of who you are is that you're just gonna do your best in in whatever capacity you're in and there's There are rewards like natural rewards from doing that but also just like internally you feel so much better about yourself
09:22 Because you know you did your best that's exactly right. Yeah, I want to be able I want to be able to go to sleep at night and to one day Hopefully look back on a long life and say I did not leave anything on the table and that includes on the family side I'm not giving it all up Just to like be some online success
09:42 No I want to look back on my life and say I tried my hardest at being a good dad at Being a business owner at being a husband and if I can do that regardless of what you know success I have or have not I will feel very very good about the way that I live to my life. I Absolutely love that. I feel like that's inspiring. That's exactly the sort of thing. I want on stage
10:01 So thank you for giving us some of your time to talk about that and there's plenty more where that came from So y'all Yeah, yeah, we got we got energy coming to Salt Lake so Aaron this has just been awesome. There's I could continue to talk with you about this forever
10:20 But we're gonna keep it short to encourage people to come in and have this conversation in person. So Yeah, I'm really looking forward to having you at the conference Just two months away now, so we'll see you in in March Sounds good. See you there. Bye everybody
